/default.aspx

Transcript for On The Wing Podcast Ep. 338: Chasing Prairie Ghosts: The Flatlanders' Upland Bird Adventure Across the West

Speaker 1 (00:50.602)

Welcome to On the Wing podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. Earlier this hunting season, my buddy Kenny Reed, a Pheasants Forever chapter volunteer from central Minnesota. Would you call it central Minnesota? Like north central Minnesota, Kenny? East central. East central. East central. Posted a bunch of cool bird hunting photos on his Facebook page.

That got me intrigued. Kenny and I chatted and he told me a little bit about an adventure he took west with his friends Colton Nefzger and Justin Nie. So on today's episode of On the Wing podcast, I've got all three of the Flatlanders who headed west in search of prairie chickens, sharpies, sage grouse, and white-tailed ptarmigan.

How about that? Two white-tailed ptarmigan stories in the matter of the last couple of weeks On the Wing podcast. So that's what we're going to talk about today. A little bit of adventure to discover new birds that exist out there on the horizon for all of us to go experience the uplands. Before we get rolling, I once again want to thank Purina Pro Plan, the national dog food sponsor of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever, as well as the presenting sponsor of On The Wing podcast. All of my pups have always eaten Purina Pro Plan. Not just because Purina supports the wildlife habitat conservation mission of our organization, which is incredibly important to me and should be important to you. However, the most important element when you're picking up food for your bird dogs is that Purina Pro Plan is a team of the world's best scientists and nutritionists behind their dog food. Purina Pro Plan was created for the working bird dog like yours and like mine. You can learn more at ProPlanSport.com. All right. As we get rolling, I like to do intros so the listeners know who we're talking to.

Speaker 1 (03:12.366)

Kenny Reed, you've been on the podcast, but it was in year one, so it's a ways back for folks that haven't met you. Give a little bit of your background, how you're connected to the organization, where you live, what you did for a living prior to your retirement.

Thanks Bob, it's a pleasure to be here with you and Justin and Colton. As you mentioned in the intro, I am a Pheasants Forever volunteer. I'm the treasurer of the Pine County, Minnesota chapter of Pheasants Forever. They're named the East Central Spurs. I'm also a member of Pheasants Forever Habitat Legacy Society, and I currently am a contractor to Pheasants Forever. I help Pheasants Forever Minnesota acquire Wildlife management areas and waterfowl production areas in the state. Work between the seller and pheasants forever to put those together. Prior to that, I had a 31 year career with St. Paul Minnesota Police Department. Various responsibilities throughout the years. And, that's pretty much it. by the way, I practice historical European martial arts. And other parlance means I'm a sword fan.

I did not know that.

You did not know that. And I've been doing that also since I retired. It's about eight or nine years now that I've been doing historical European martial arts.

Speaker 1 (04:42.082)

historical European martial arts. So do you get like armor on and fight people with like the chain mail stuff?

You're a lot of padding, yes.

Not chainmail. We are based on 14th and 15th century sword masters in Germany, Italy, and Spain. We use manuscripts that were found or left behind from those times. And we train according to their principles. And then, yeah, we stab and thrust and cut each other.

Speaker 1 (05:22.164)

Okay, didn't know that you... I was going to ask you... So police to public lands, I was going to ask you if there's any commonality between your work in law enforcement and your work for Pheasants Forever to secure public lands. Is there anything that you've thought, I didn't realize there'd be a comparable there.

No, that was a career choice I made back a long time ago to get into law enforcement, but my off duty has always been hunting and wildlife and conservation and fishing. so when I retired, I was always a Pheasants Forever member, but I was never involved. And I thought, you know, I've hunted a lot of years and a lot of places and I need to get involved now that I have the time and the resources to do that.

So we've got Colton and we've got Justin. Who did you meet first?

I met Justin first. Justin, my daughter played volleyball and went to school with Justin's brother Mark, his wife. And I met Mark through my daughter. And then through Mark, we met Justin. Okay. And we've continued a relationship over many years.

Speaker 1 (06:56.238)

All right, Justin, take the baton and tell us about you.

Yeah, like Kenny said, when my brother got married and met him at the wedding and everything. And we just kind of clicked and then he invited me up to a fish and his cabin. And then that led to doing some work at his land when he bought that and got to do some pheasant hunting with them up there too. And he also messed it up when I first got my dog Ruby and took me out to North Dakota. Nine years ago, actually it was now. That was actually when I saw my first Sharpie too. I swore to just shot a hen pheasant. He's like, no, it was a Sharpie. I'm like, never saw one before. But it took me until about three years ago before I actually went sharp-tail hunting with a buddy Colton. It's just been a blast ever since. and I just keep coming up more trips we want to keep doing every fall and do something new with something old. So, and Colton's my wife's cousin.

So that's kind of how him and I met. We've known each other about 11 years now, but we didn't really start doing a lot of hunting together until about four or five years ago.

Okay. Any big holiday gatherings?

Speaker 3 (08:11.342)

Pretty much. Yep. My wife always yells at me. It's like, can't just talk to Colton all the time.

Speaker 1 (08:20.282)

That's fun. At least you could talk to somebody rather than the drunk uncle, you know. All right, so pass the microphone to Colton. Tell us a little bit about you.

OK, so I grew up in Northeast Iowa, hunting behind my dad and his shorthairs. I've been bird hunting since as long as I can remember carrying a BB gun behind him. actually killed my first rooster with a BB gun as it ran out the end of a field with my dad one time. Yeah, it ran out. You killed a rooster with a BB gun? did. Dad had me standing next to him and a rooster come running out. He's like, go for it. Bam. Right in the head. Killed it. He couldn't believe it either. And he tells everybody that story when we started talking bird hunting. I've been involved with PF since 2015, I think. Dad and I both got on our local chapter in Delaware County, Iowa. And I was actually recently elected president of our chapter this past spring. I'm excited about that. have actually our 40th anniversary banquet coming up next weekend, which when this airs, it'll probably be over already. It's November 8th. So.

Thank you for stepping up and being a chapter president. That's how big workload is, but it does make a difference. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun, but it's also been a lot of stress, but it's worth it. I'm kind of in the same boat as Kenny is. I grew up hunting a lot of pheasants forever grounds, so I felt like I needed to give back a little bit. I feel like now we definitely have, and we've done a lot of land acquisitions lately, so it's been really nice.

It looks like you're wearing an aiming for the cure hat. Am I? You are, okay. So I bring that up because my bird dogs, my short hairs come from the Reese family. yeah, Top Gun Kennels. Yep, Top Gun Kennels, but they also created aiming for a cure in honor of their son who died of childhood cancer. Right. So terrific, terrific family and wonderful cause. Very much so.

Speaker 1 (10:24.142)

met them because when I was younger, I also had childhood cancer. So kind of full circle there. That's kind of neat. Yeah. I've met Steve and Jody when I was 13 years old. It was 2011 and I've known them since. them every year. We always go to the banquets and we do the golf outing every year too. So it's a wonderful cause. I love everything they do, everything they stand for. Yeah. Right on there. Unbelievable family.

So tell us a little bit more. You said you grew up with shorthairs, but you don't have shorthairs now, do you? Correct. When dad's last shorthair passed away, we had a couple of buddies that we do a lot of hunting with now that had a litter of vizlas. So dad and I each have a pup out of that litter. And mine is a four-year-old female named Aloe, and he has a four-year-old male named Cletus. And then Dad also rescued a five-year-old Vizla named Sammy, which she doesn't hunt because she's gun shy, but she's just a good house dog. So you have pointers, and then Kenny, you've got a mix, right?

I do. Throughout most of my hunting career, I've had English Spare Spaniels and I do have Bailey, my eight year old English Spaniel now, but I also have a Picardy Spaniel, Maddie, who's four years old. In fact, just yesterday, four years old. And Picardy Spaniels are relatively rare in the United States. There's only about 350 of them in the United States right now.

They're from the Picardy region in France and they are a spaniel breed but they are a pointer.

Speaker 1 (12:09.478)

Remarkable. And then Justin, you have labs, if I recall correctly.

Yup, I got two yellow laps. They're half sisters and same dad, but different moms. And Ruby will be 10 in March and Oakley will be four in March. Oakley, not as good a hunter as Ruby, but amazing retriever. So I, even when she doesn't hunt it hard, it's nice to have her to go retrieve the birds as long as she sees them. Otherwise I have to go get them.

So we're going to get into kind of your trip and hunting each day. I'm curious though, you got six total dogs between you. Three pointers, three flushers. Did you guys talk about strategically, all right, we're going to get the pointers out on this walk or I'm going to walk this direction. Was that a thing you guys discussed? Yeah, I like hope.

answering that if you want to. We talked about it a little bit, but most of the time it was because it was, especially when we were hunting the new birds, we wanted our dogs to hunt every bird and we were hunting so wide and so spread out. We were almost like we were hunting alone, but yet together where we would strategically kind of walk towards each other or move around. I mean, we didn't really strategically do it, but we didn't really talk much, but.

I would say we have. Go ahead, Kenny.

Speaker 2 (13:39.566)

We had some limitations just logistically too. I one vehicle. So we each chose a dog that we wanted to take this trip with. So that we could fit them into the vehicle.

Yeah. Okay. So on this particular trip, you each brought one dog. Correct. We had my truck, which I have a topper on and Justin typically and I, him and I would take all four of our dogs when we would go just the two of us, but having Kenny with us, was like a clown car. There was so much gear, so many dogs, so many coolers. was, you couldn't fit anything else in that truck when we took off. So

All right, we will jump in and have Colton have you tell us the trip, the vision for the trip, the plan. Before I get to that, I want to thank Greenbelt Premium and Premium Light, the pheasant-friendly beer now on liquor store shelves in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Today's premium moment.

comes from Nebraska where John writes in on Facebook. The coolest retrieve I've ever seen. Here's the story. One of my favorite memories of pheasant hunting was a late afternoon hunt on a public ground next to a creek with my friend Mark. We were walking through the cattails with our yellow labs, Tika and Maggie, both eager and full of energy. As we neared the end,

which is my favorite stretch. A rooster exploded from the cover to my right. I swung, fired, and I hit it. It looked like it was going down, but then it locked its wings and sailed low, maybe five feet off the ground gliding for what felt like a mile. My pup Maggie didn't see it. So we reached that area that I thought I went down. I said, find it, Maggie.

Speaker 1 (15:50.12)

and she went after it and further than I expected. To my surprise, she flushed the rooster and it had a broken wing, so it only jumped five feet in the air and dropped back down into the cattails. Maggie was right on it in this game of the rooster popping up and Maggie popping up after it ensued. I yelled, get it, Mags, fetch it up. It reminded me of a shark leaping from the water after a fish.

The bird would pop and then disappear again. Eventually though, Maggie caught it. And it was without a doubt the coolest retrieve I have ever seen. And I'm so incredibly proud of Maggie for bringing that crippled rooster back to my game best. What a wonderful story. think anybody that's hunted roosters has been there before, cracked a wing and watched their dog.

popping up at the top of the grass and you see their head trying to find that running rooster. Thank you very much John for bringing that green belt premium moment to life. We've got a green belt prize pack headed your way. Alright Colton, I teased at the intro that you guys headed west in search of chickens, prairie chickens.

Sharpies, sage-grouse, white-tailed ptarmigan. Tell us about your vision for this haunt and how it came together. So this trip had been in the works for, it was two full years. It was one of Justin and I's holiday chit chat, and I think it was a Christmas, correct me if I'm wrong, Justin. And I'm pretty sure we got yelled at at that one too, because we talked for hours. And we've been talking about...

all different types of birds out west. And we had been talking about sage grouse because we saw them while we were elk shed hunting earlier that spring. But then Justin mentioned these white tailed ptarmigan and I had never heard of them, didn't know what they were, didn't know where they lived, nothing. And I told him he was nuts, but I'm always game for an adventure. So we're going to we're going to roll with it. And the reason it took two years was because my dad and I went to Canada

Speaker 1 (18:15.436)

the year in between and went after ruffed grouse and spruce grouse. And we did very, very well with our dogs up there. But a lot of it was, we had to do a ton of research. that, that was a lot of the, vision that it took forever to figure out where we go, where to find these birds, how to hunt them. It was, it was just a lot. then once we kind of had a

It was a kind of plan. One day Justin's like, we got room in the truck. You mind if my buddy Kenny goes with them? Sure, more than Mary, as long as we can fit him in the truck, let's roll. Kenny had come down at Pheasant Hut with me and Justin one time down in Iowa. I had kind of known him a little bit, but it was a lot of planning, a lot of research on lunch breaks.

So, Justin, whitetail ptarmigan, where'd the interest come from?

It's actually kind of a funny story. was applying for elk and mule deer points in Colorado. And then they said, send a survey out asking if you're going to hunt all these different birds in Colorado. And that's where it came up. Whitetail ptarmigans. And I started researching what is this? And then I threw the idea, Kultimac, hey, we drew up your own Giga. So it's all a survey. And that's how this whole, whole story came about.

Then so our original plan was just to do Wyoming sage grouse for like two, three days, see if we can't find, find a couple of birds and maybe get a couple of limits and then go down Colorado. then our buddy, Jake Wolf, who works in South Dakota as a biologist, like guys, pretty chicken populations up 40%. So I call Colton first and say, what do you think? Should we stop there? He's like, I don't care. I'll call Kenny. Kenny. Oh, you're in Alaska. Do you want to go to South Dakota too?

Speaker 3 (20:19.502)

We hold in two more days of sharptail hunting and prairie chicken hunting in South Dakota. So that's how that came about too.

And for hardcore listeners of On The Wing podcast, Jake was on the South Dakota pheasant and prairie grouse forecast episode a few back telling our listeners is it going to be a phenomenal prairie grouse season. So when he's your buddy and he tells you you should go, right listen. Go ahead, Katie.

So you gotta know that these guys, Colton and Justin, did a lot of pre-work, a lot of leg work and research ahead of time. And I was honored that they called me and asked if I would be invited on this trip. About what, a month and a half before the trip, before we went, about two months, month and a half before. And the listener probably doesn't know, but there's a pretty varied age difference between those two young men and myself. And I, my initial thought was, are you sure that you want me to come along on this trip with you? And they encouraged me and said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we, think you can, you can handle it. Yeah. And I were okay. I got some training to do.

Well, in your thinking about you're in good shape, you're a knowledgeable hunter and you got good dogs. it's probably, there is certainly an age difference, but it probably wasn't a major hurdle in their minds to add you to the mix. I'm speaking for you guys, but tell Colton, what do you think? What was the conversation? When Justin did originally bring it up, I'm like, how old is Kenny? I'm only 27.

Speaker 1 (22:11.786)

I can't remember exactly how old you are Kenny, but I was like, can he physically handle? he's like, Justin's like, yeah, he's good. He'll work his butt off and he'll be ready. And actually in Colorado, he was in better shape than I was when we got off top. Cause I was hurting. I got the altitude sickness, but yeah, I was once Justin said, yep, he's good. He's training. He's gonna, he's gonna be there. I'm like, I'm all for it. Let's roll. do do Kenny?

in the offseason, are you a hardcore workout guy? What's your philosophy on staying in shape as you get older to stay in the game as a bird hunter?

Well, I have a simple philosophy, Bob. If you don't use it, you lose it. And so I, you know, between my farm and the cabin and the work I do, I stay in pretty good shape that way. And the sword fighting obviously adds another dimension to that. But for this trip in particular, knew, I knew about whitetail tarragon and I knew altitude, you know, that they don't go below 11,000 feet generally, and that I had to do some serious altitude, high altitude training. So I have a route here in my hometown of Eagan that has a four mile route that has a bunch of up and down hills. The total elevation changes and all that great, but the combination of all the hills, I figured that's going to help me a lot. And I did that in the month and a half leading up to this. did that four times a week out.

Speaker 2 (23:54.186)

And I also did some other exercises and stuff that were geared towards altitude training. So I I was ready.

All right, before we get to Colorado, Kenny, take me through your first destination, which was South Dakota. What did you do? How did that fit into the mix? And tell us how the hunt went.

Well, I had never been to the Fort Pierre National Grasslands before. And I mean, it's 116,000 acres of land, public land, that's available to sportsmen and outdoor enthusiasts. Josta Colton had hunted that one time, and they had a general area that they wanted to target. We got out there after several days of hard rain, and it was a muddy mess.

I mean, it was really, really bad. And so we didn't want to tear up a section road that would take us back to where we wanted to hunt. Sure. And so we camped, set up camp at the intersection with the main road at the gate. Unfortunately for us, the next morning, which was opening morning of Shark Tale season,

A bunch of people come driving in and driving down those section lines and just tearing the hell out of them. And basically cutting us off from where we had planned to stop it. But we knew that they weren't going to go back as far as we were going to go. So we just opted to hike around them, which was what would you say just a two and a half mile?

Speaker 3 (25:37.454)

Yeah, it was an extra mile and a half walk just to get around them and then we went to Halstead as well. It was probably two and a half pass and then two and a half.

Then we went past them.

Yeah, so we had to adjust the game plan on the fly But they had had birds there the previous year and when we got back into that area we hiked around quite a bit until we found some very short very short grass prairie and Boy, as soon as we hit that we got into birds Both okay shark tails right away or I'm sorry prairie chickens right away

These are chickens.

Speaker 2 (26:15.406)

And then as we got, they flushed wild initially, but they got into the lengthier grass, grasslands. And then all of a sudden we were sharp tails and prairie chickens and the dogs were great. And we did really well in a very short period of time.

any snake incident.

Nope, never encountered on any of the locations, Wyoming, Colorado or South Dakota, we never ran into a snake at all. No rattlesnakes that we saw at all.

Last year we did in the same spot we did. ran into a rass like with my dog Oakley. So yeah, it's stuff they're there. It's just, we didn't run into a mistake.

Anything that you did in the year between to, you know, did you do any snake avoidance or any vaccine or just try to do your best to identify where they're likely to be and move around?

Speaker 3 (27:15.756)

Yeah, I'd say we just try to avoid them. I've heard the vaccines aren't like 100 % like effectible or effective. So I, and a lot of people don't even stock it. So it's hard to even find a vet that has the vaccine for you.

Yeah, my local vet doesn't carry it at all. called them though on that right after Justin ran into that one last year and they said in Iowa, they don't see rattlesnakes. So there's no reason for them to carry it. So it's hard to get for us.

And then I, in previous years, honey, South Dakota, I have used the vet rattlesnake vaccine on my dogs. but I came to learn that most of it was based on, California timber rattlers, I think. And prairie rattlers, it doesn't have as good of an effect on if you're, if a dog is bitten by them. So mostly the, my vets have recommended carrying some prednisone, just to this.

Speaker 2 (28:14.072)

keep the symptoms down until you can get him to a vet. Yeah, know where the vet is where you're hunting. Yes, and we did do that. We knew. so every place you went, had a list of vets that would be included. I had them saved in my phone so I knew we could call it right down, you know right away

Speaker 1 (28:34.286)

All right, so we're gonna transition from Sharpies and Chickens in Fort Pierre and move towards that white-tailed ptarmigan in Colorado. I want to thank onX first for supporting On the Wing podcast. If you've been living under a rock, you're probably the only person that doesn't know that OnX is a terrific tool for the bird hunter, as well as onX’s proud support of our PATH, Public Access to Habitat program, which has already opened up more than 100,000 acres of private land to public hunters in South Dakota and Nebraska. I knew this year coming to North Dakota, Oklahoma, and Michigan as well. You, if you don't yet have onX or if it's time to renew.

You can find a link in the show notes to this episode. Please use the code PFQF. Not only will you get 20 % off your membership if you use that code, but you will also be generating a contribution from onX to Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's habitat mission. So in the link, use the code PFQF. All right, Justin.

The white-tailed ptarmigan, Colorado, that's next up on your list. You go from Fort Pierre to a different elevation chain.

Yeah. So originally we're going to hit up Wyoming. You know, that's the next state over and then Colorado, but there are some bad storms where I well, let's push through that head down to Colorado. And I think the guys were with me. The one of the craziest things we've seen was going through Cheyenne. I think it was, you know, from 66 degrees to 36 degrees and we're getting slushy hail just pounding the truck. That's twice now going through Cheyenne. It's just crazy weather out there. You never know what you're going to hit.

Speaker 1 (30:36.526)

Hmm.

Speaker 3 (30:42.734)

But yeah, so we keep working to Colorado. And we, think Colton found this hot springs and spa area where we wanted to maybe try to get to so we could, you know, rest the bodies and heal a little bit before going into mountains. We drove all the way there, got there that night. And then the next day we went to a fishing store to get the rest of our license we need. Cause again, we were trying to be flexible, so we didn't want to

If the weather's bad in Colorado, we might've skipped that altogether. And we're talking to that local guy.

I was just going to ask, the Hot Springs, was that the Hot Springs that was featured in the Pheasants Forever Journal? The Hopo Spa? No. Okay, something different. All right.

They were wonderful, those.

It was, see how we relax a little bit that night and the next morning and then we got all of our gear and headed up to the mountains. We got up to about 10, eight and we set up camp and we just wanted to go for a hike. So we just kept driving down this road and were more in pine trees like spruce or what was it? Dusky grouse habitat and moose habitat is what we learned. We prepped, we ran into more moose than we did birds up there. We were shocked. We could, we'd never found one bird up there that first night. And we, we've got a lot of thinking even that first night. And we, you know, had supper, went to bed and you're here and moose walking by camp and like, it was more thrilling of an adventure up in Colorado. The views and the moose.

Ha, that's a boost.

Speaker 3 (32:32.046)

The next day we had a 1400 foot climb because I tried to make a bunch of phone calls to see what roads were drivable or not. And supposedly this road that we ended up hiking was drivable, just not maybe with a pickup truck.

that definitely not with my truck. My poor truck on this trip got beat up. We broke both sway bar links and coming down through the mountains, we warped both of my front rotors. So I had a nice little bill when we got back, but it was totally worth it. was totally worth it. So, so white tail time again, you guys never hunted them before and not one of you, right? So.

Just what research, where did you do research to try to figure out habitat, elevation, know, where you would even find them?

Yeah, I Googled it, uh, the Colorado Wildlife and Parks website. And again, I like trying to call locals, the people working, living in Colorado, try to get a hold of the conservation officers, but it's kind of tough in Colorado versus other states. Um, just try to get as much local knowledge as I can before you just attempt something like this, because yeah, they live at 12, 13,000 feet. So I think you can just go for a hike like we do in South Dakota.

Yeah. We also talked to locals in the town near where we were. And we knew we were in the right area. We knew that we're in an area where there should be ptarmigan. We just had to find. I had watched a lot of videos looking at the habitat that they used. it depends as the season progresses, they move more from

Speaker 2 (34:19.534)

the beginning of the alpine zone up into the more rocky sections and We covered it all I mean in this area we covered everything from you know Right on the edge of the alpine tree line to up into the rocky sections, but it's a huge area Yeah, you know it's a huge area and as we and I mean, it's beautiful That's the one thing I think all three of us were how beautiful the scenery was

You know, just it was disappointing not to find birds, but it was so worth the

And then like you mentioned with OnX, that was another big thing that Colton and I use a lot of. I probably have like over thousand points over all the different states I've been to now. I think the big thing for the future, because I would like to go after them again, would be trying to drive to the elevation that you might find them and then migrate from there. Because again, we had 1400 foot elevation climb and I didn't think we were rushing it, but I think we did it in less than two hours. And that took a toll.

So once we actually got up there and it's like, okay, that was to enjoy the view a little bit and then start hiking and trying to find these birds. But yeah, it was a good hike.

Hmm.

Speaker 2 (35:39.04)

It beat these guys up.

The old guy did it. Did you feel the effects,

yeah, but not near, I don't think nearly to the degree that these guys.

I was fine during the day, both days. It was when we got back to camp, I had random, a low grade fever for two hours, both nights. I was fine all day. I felt great. I kept food in me. I kept water. I felt good. But yeah, I did run a fever, which is a symptom of altitude sickness.

Yeah, mine was as soon as we peaked and we could see the beautiful, it was just a gorgeous lake. I started going down and it felt like somebody threw an axe right through my forehead. Worst skull splitting headache I have ever had in my life. And if I sat down and just hung out with my dog, I'd feel great. As soon as I stood up and took about five steps, it'd come right back. I don't know, I don't know what it was doing, but it was not fun. And I even took

Speaker 1 (36:39.84)

supplemental boost oxygen that Kenny had and it did nothing. ate smooth. Even some of the locals were offering their food and I ended up just hiking down because I couldn't take it anymore. any point, did you guys see birds in a distance? they flush well? Never encountered a single...

And our no-cow. For sure, other ones.

Thanks.

So, Justin, you've already answered my final question that you would go back and do this again. What about Colton? Would you do it again? yeah, I'd definitely go back. I'd probably train a little bit more than what I did just to get myself a little bit more acclimated and get used to the elevation. I think maybe camping a little bit higher might have helped too and staying there more than two and a half days.

Cause we, we literally went from the lowlands of South Dakota in the morning to 10,000 foot that night. And then the next morning we hiked to 13,000 foot. So it was 12,000 foot. So.

Speaker 2 (37:43.606)

Which wasn't our original plan.

No, the original plan was to go to Wyoming where it was a little bit higher. I get that five, yeah, stay there and then work our way up. That way you're kind of accoladed as you go up. And same for the dogs too because I was more worried about my dog getting sick. Well, that was going to be my other question is how did your dogs react to the LLV?

I think they're all stiff the next day, but they were fine. They really seemed to do good.

Yeah, they handled it really well.

Kenny, would you do it again?

Speaker 2 (38:16.148)

I don't know if I'll commit to that, but yeah, I mean, I don't like something left undone.

He's got to go with me next year.

What about, I've heard the rocky terrain, were any of guys worried about the safety of your dogs hunting at elevation in new terrain?

I was not so worried about it because we have pretty well-trained dogs and good control over them. I didn't run into anything that I was too worried about. There was one cliff face that I had a shale slide that I had to negotiate down and Matty handled it just fine. So yeah, but there was no abrupt graph ops or anything that we saw.

Okay. All right. Let's transition to what was supposed to be the second state, but ended up being the grand finale. Colton, take us through sage grouse hunting in Wyoming. So yeah, when Justin and I were originally planning the trip, he kind of took Colorado. I took Wyoming. That was just so we weren't trying to look up at the same stuff and all that. And I spent a lot of break times and a lot of lunch breaks.

Speaker 1 (39:37.966)

with both my computer screens at work, one with OnX, the other with other resources that I was finding and trying to compare and find points. And I ended up finding some very, very good information. Some of it even coming from the Wyoming, like wild game and fish. And one of those points that I found, we literally ran right into them. So it was, and the spot that we went to wasn't even our first choice. We were going to hunt a completely different area.

But when we were sitting in Colorado, we were like, well, how far do we want to go? Instead of driving the, what was it? don't mean it was like six and a half hours to one spot. This other one was only like four. Like, well, we can go to that one. And then if it's not good, we'll go the extra two hours. And that very first night slash afternoon that we were there, we ran into birds, but hunting sage grouse is nothing like anything I've hunted. It's like shooting small turkeys.

those birds can take a hit. It's ridiculous and they're huge compared to like a wild rooster. Even my dog that has seen some very big roosters, she didn't know what to do when she walked up to them. And when you walk, like we got out of the truck that first night and it's just a sea of sage. I mean, there's like, there's, there was no rhyme or reason on where the birds were or why they were there. It just, we happened to run into them.

So it wasn't a water source or any sort of landscape. just spread out and cover as much ground as possible. We tried looking for those kind of like... So you could pinpoint and you could find more birds. We didn't want to just hunt one group of birds either. were trying to... And we do that in all the states. We're trying to break up when we're hunting in the groups. We're not taking a whole bunch out of one area.

Yeah, there is no rhyme or reason on where they were on any of the groups. I think we found four or five different groups of birds in that area and not a single one was in like, okay, this is why they're here. was- So patterning them was very- Yeah, it's not like you can pattern a wild rooster or a sharpies, like where you can kind of figure out where they're going to be. These birds, you had no clue. Go ahead, John.

Speaker 2 (41:56.63)

I think that we, you know, we lack some knowledge base about, about that. I think as we went along through the next couple of days though, we did learn a little bit about that. And for, in terms of, for lack of a better word, the juicier sage brush habitats, seemed to be where we found more birds. Yeah. But I mean, it's just like he said, a sea of sage.

It really is hard to differentiate, you know, and it's a lot of BLM land blocks and it's hard to differentiate, you know, what's this one got that that wasn't got, you know, and where were the birds most likely be? But we learned quite a bit.

Yeah, go ahead, Jess.

Yeah, the first spot like Colton mentioned already that again was, it was all flat even in public private, everything was flat there. But the second day we went to a brand new area again to try to find a bird's and we walked this drainage and nothing flushed. Colton's already back to the truck cause he's still her from Colorado and any day you're literally like a hundred yards from the truck and all of sudden for no rhyme or reason here goes for grouse.

flushing on this ridge top above the truck. And I yelled, growl, some cold looks sees it. They dropped right over the hill. So we went after them and then we hunted those and we did a circle back to the truck. And then like, I really want to go back on that ridge, but go the other way. Cause maybe they liked that ridge because they're higher up and they can glass more. And sure enough, Kenny and I went up there and Colton picks up at the end of that old hike and we found more. like the second day we found a more ridge top.

Speaker 3 (43:39.832)

First spot though was just all flat and there again, no rhyme or reason that we could find.

How did your dog handle or your dog's handle trying to retrieve a sage grouse with a small turkey going so- My Vesla Aloe is only 40 pounds. She's a very, very small Vesla compared to other Veslas and she can hold her own on retrieving normal birds. But when Justin was talking about those ones that flushed a hundred yards from the truck, I was actually on my phone with my dad talking about our PF.

meeting the night before that I had missed and I hung up on him and he thought something wrong, like something happened. We went up over that hill and there was like six birds standing at 40 yards just in the wide open. She sight pointed them. They flushed. I dropped two, which is the limit in Wyoming. You can only shoot two. So it's kind of like, oh dang, I'm done. But she run up to the first one and looked at it, looked back at me like, what am I supposed to do with this thing? It was, was.

It was kind of comical. So I'm like, well, I just walked up to her and picked it up for her because she just looking at me like, I don't know what to do with this thing. Cause it was about half the size of her. Go ahead. Hmm. And have you guys eaten the sage grouse? I have not. I'm looking. Okay. Justin, have you? Teddy?

I am not, no.

Speaker 2 (45:04.992)

No, I save up a lot of our wild game for New Year's Eve feast. So I really look forward to getting different bird species and then save them up for a new

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:17.358)

Well, it hit me back after he has eaten them because I'm very curious. I've not hunted nor eaten them. I've hunted them with telemetry. been in the field with a researcher, but I've not shot a sage grouse, so I've not eaten one. And I'm very curious. hear young ones are very tasty and then older big, not little turkeys, but bigger turkeys looking are a little bit...

game-ier but I'm very curious to hear what you guys think.

Well, we were real fortunate and these coveys that we got into, and like Colton said, we ran into five different coveys of sage grouse. And the first one, the first afternoon when we were out there, mean, there must've been 16 or more birds that explanted exploded from this, you know, flat sage step, you know? And then the other coveys were.

Comparable in size. We saw a lot of birds And and we covered a good amount of ground to see them But was interesting because the locals that we talked to in town Didn't report. I haven't seen a sage grouse for Remember the one guy at the sporting goods store No, we shoot sage grouse around here, but I see sage grouse forever and There was there was plenty of birds there

They just opened the tough tape there because they know they're there.

Speaker 2 (46:49.166)

Now I be

Justin, tell me how you approached ammunition, like what gauge did you use, what ammo, what choke tube, and did you change going from Prairie Grouse to ptarmigan to sage?

Yeah, so cause a sharp tails, query chickens, five shot, Prairie storm is what I normally use. then Colton suggested something to me last year, years ago. Colton for like me, can't remember it.

It's the Fiat or Fiochi, however you say that, Pheasant Max Plus that is exclusive to SCHEELS. I had very, very good luck with the number fives out of my CZ. So that's what I've been shooting and I've shoot that across the board. The only thing I changed for was the ptarmigan just because they were so much smaller. I was shooting, I think we shot seven and a halfs. Yes, but they were a high brass seven and a half just so you didn't blow them apart if you did find them.

I shoot a CZ 10-12 and I always shoot a improved modified choke and I had very very good luck with all across the board roosters whatever.

Speaker 3 (48:01.866)

It's sort of the number fours for sage grouse, but I never patterned my gun and I was not in trouble with that. No, or not well, anyways, because like I think out of the eight birds we got of the two days we hunted, four of them were running from us after because that's how well they absorbed the impact. I picked up one of my birds. had a one inch hole in between and feathers missing out of its breast. And that thing was running from me because Oakley didn't see it. So I had to chase it down and he's locked this bug at me.

was actually pretty hilarious.

So we talked, we might want to go three inch next time we go.

That's what I was thinking too, like maybe next time sage grouse would take a little bit heavier shot, a little bit more. Yeah, I would 100 % agree with going at least a three head shell because there was one in particular that I remember Justin and I were both shooting at it and I watched that bird get hit three times before it finally came down and it still ran when it hit the ground. You could see feathers fly, patterns hit it and it was like it was just bouncing off.

I would never have guessed that they'd be that tough, but they definitely were.

Speaker 3 (49:11.572)

on the first night, the very first bird flushed in between Kenny and I, but I couldn't shoot because Kenny's in my background. So I just yelled, grouse, because then they would have opportunity as well. thinking, all of a sudden I had more flush right underneath my feet, but Oakley's already taken off toward the first one with that one. So I'm shooting at the rest of them. I get one, but same thing, that thing's running from me when it hit the ground. Thankfully, you know, the stage brush is open so you can chase it down. But it's just like, I had a lot of running this trip.

Speaker 3 (49:44.317)

and Colton and Kenny didn't even realize I got a bird, because they're like, yeah, we saw the flush over here, we're gonna follow them up. I'm like, okay. And I'm just like trying to catch my breath and I'm like, I'll go get the truck and pick you up. And I pick him up, they're like, yeah, I got one. He's like, you did? I'm like, yeah, but I was too tired to tell you.

Just so would you, Hudson H. Krauss again, would you make that trip to Iowa?

Like Colton said, all the trips we do, we try to spread out where and how many we kill. Cause again, that's, that's where conservation is. Is that taking out the whole population at one spot. So I would definitely do it again. Cause as long as the populations are healthy, I would definitely go out.

Colton, would you go back to Wyoming for Sage Cup? 100%. That was a riot. I loved every bit of that. Kenny?

yeah, that was, that was really a enjoyable hunt. like I said, like Justin said, you know, conservation wise, we knew we didn't want to take too many out of any one group. So we knew we were going to put some miles in and, it was just a lot of fun. It was just a lot of fun. It was a cool area. Antelope, pronghorn antelope everywhere. Just like in Colorado, the moose were everywhere. In Wyoming it was pronghorn antelope.

Speaker 1 (51:01.39)

All right, as we round the corner, you guys are... go ahead, Colton. I'll add it in a little bit. We'll need... okay. So, as we head towards home, as you guys are heading home from Wyoming, I'm certain that there's listeners out there, whether it be they want to make a trip out for the Colorado elusive white-tailed ptarmigan or dusky grouse or...

Gambel's Quail? What sort of advice would you give, and we'll start with Justin, to somebody searching a new place for a new bird? Everything's new to them. What did you learn going on this trip that you would offer to listeners?

like I kind of mentioned already, I do a lot of research, so research online and then I try to make phone calls. I'm not shy person making phone calls. So that one base successful as I can. So I make a lot of phone calls to the locals. Just like Jake Wolf and I talked about, he's like last year he literally got a call from a guy getting yelled at because the guy never found one shark tail prey chicken. And he's just laughing because Colton, I just got done doing five days and we got.

30 some birds between the three people that was on that trip last year. So was like, don't be afraid of talking to the local biologists, conservation officers, like just make those phone calls, make connections. like, that's, that's my big one. then using on X, like you've mentioned as well as a big tool, narrowing down where do you want to go and staying off private ground. That's another big part thing.

Great advice. Coltan, what do you want to bring up? My biggest thing and what I was going to bring up just a little bit ago is you can't be discouraged if you don't find birds in a spot. You have to stay mobile. And I know that's kind how I think we have found the most success is we don't get hotels except for maybe one night in the middle of the trip just to get a good shower and a night's sleep. We're 100 % mobile.

Speaker 1 (53:09.816)

The first couple of times Justin and I went, actually just threw cots on the ground and just slept under the stars. And it was beautiful. We got to see Northern lights and everything. This trip, we pitched a tent every night, which was, liked that as well, but staying mobile. Don't get discouraged. If you don't find birds, just keep moving, keep trying. Always watch the habitat. Like once you do find birds, you have to make sure you're watching where you find them and where they go. Kind of.

like the patterning thing we were talking about earlier. Just keep that always in mind, but stay mobile. Yeah. Kenny, you get the final bow on this present. Well, I think

think one thing I'd like to mention is that logistics was a big part of it. We planned meals, we planned, you know, the tent, all that stuff. We had a lot of conversations, a lot of messages back and forth on logistics for three people from two different states, you know, how we were going to do this. The big thing for me though was preparing yourself for the physical aspects of the hunt in various locations. We were in South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado.

You need to be prepared for that and what that terrain is like. And then keep your expectations in line with your experience in new locales and be thankful when it works out. And we were, we are very thankful. It was a great trip. We had good success. You know, we kept our expectations in line with what we thought and we exceeded them this time, but that's not always the case, you know, and.

So it was a great trip, guys.

Speaker 1 (54:52.578)

That was really fabulous advice. And particularly, I was thinking about the last point you made about keeping your expectations in line with your experience. And I was thinking about that. Throughout this conversation, I was asking about, you go back and do it again? Would you go back and do it again? And I think it's super important for the traveling bird owner. And you learn this over time. When you're going to a new place, you...

You got to kind of right off the first year as a really big learning experience. You know, you learn a lot about the landscape, how your dogs are going to adapt to different terrain, how you might have to adapt to different terrain, how to read different habitat. And that's part of the adventure too. You're not going to chase a new bird in a new place to just stack up a tailgate shot. If you are, you might as well go to a game farm and

guarantee your success. When you're going chasing wild birds in wild places that you've never been before, know, have some expectations about, I'm going to learn, I'm going to enjoy the process, and then maybe years two, three, four, I can add to, you know, my success ratio based on all the, you know, the school of hard knocks. And that pays off too. It becomes

more satisfying. But I really like that final thought, Kenny, that just manage your expectations and enjoy it for what it is. Beauty, new place, with good friends, and entirely new experience. I think you guys have illustrated that throughout this conversation. You've created a bond and a friendship that transcends age and physical ability, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:48.386)

Well, thank you guys for sharing your story. Stay in touch with me. A, I'm really curious how you guys like eating sage-grouse. I'm super curious. And then B, let us know if you plan an adventure next year. And I'm very curious if that comes to fruition and what's the...

Are you going back to the same places in search of the same birds or are you expanding to something new? I'm curious how that evolves with the three of you. What's the early thought, Kenny?

We have had conversa-

Speaker 2 (57:27.932)

I don't think we've settled on anything yet.

All right. All right. Well, keep me informed because I'm curious. Very good. All right, guys. For Justin Nie, for Kenny Reed, and for Colton Nefzger, I'm Bob St. Pierre, reminding you to always follow the dog. It'll take you to some beautiful places and searching new birds, and something good will rise. Thanks for listening, folks.